Cooking Mushrooms with Alan Bergo
Alisa Nappa
Alan Bergo, the chef better known as forager chef leads us on a gastronomic journey of the senses into the mushroom world. We talk about local foraged and farmed food, tips and tricks on how to cook mushrooms, notable varieties people should try before they die, and lots more. Tune in, shroom in and get your taste buds ready.
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TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker 0:00 Alex, Unknown Speaker 0:12 welcome, welcome. You are listening to the mushroom revival podcast. I'm your host, Alex Dorr, and we are absolutely obsessed with the wild and wacky world of mushrooms and fungi. We bring on guests and experts from all around the globe to geek out with us and go down this mysterious rabbit hole to try to figure out what the heck is going on with these mysterious mushroom beings. So today, we're going to talk all about cooking and the culinary arts of the mushroom world with with Alan Burgo. So you're tuning in from Minnesota. How you doing? Man, I'm doing good. It's been a great season over here. Nice, nice. And for people who don't know you and your work, Unknown Speaker 0:55 who are you? What are you up to in this world? Oh, my name's chef Alan Burgo, and I'm the author of foragerschef.com and the forager chef's book of flora. And most people know me for cooking wild mushrooms. I spent 15 years cooking as a professional chef in the restaurant industry, and then eventually I broke off and just started doing my own thing. I've done a couple shows. I used to have my own show that was on Apple TV. I did another show on Hulu that was all about foraging. I've done a lot of stuff Unknown Speaker 1:31 sweet. And how did you get into that world of both cooking but also weaving in, you know, like wild forage plants and mushrooms and things like that. Yeah. Well, I was, I'm an interesting case, because at the restaurant that I was working at that will, the restaurant where really I had my formative years, is called heartland, and we only used ingredients from within 200 miles of Minnesota, and the menu changed every single day, and I got to write the menu, wow. So, yeah, it was intense. There could be, you know, I think when we started, there was like, 14 dishes on my station that I would prep brand new every single day. It's like, you know, being a Green Beret or something like that. It was, it was really intense. But I started to see, I got to see ingredients that were, you know, hyper local, hyper seasonal, things that I'd never seen before. And the most interesting things, some of the most interesting things were wild mushrooms, wild plants and things like that. And I really got spoon fed like the best and most popular, common edible wild mushrooms in my area, just by working on the job. So that kind of jump from, you know, people starting out foraging and looking for mushrooms and then picking it, making sure that, you know, they have and I their correct ID, and, you know, asking all their friends or posting on Facebook or something like that, when I started picking mushrooms, I already knew exactly what I was looking for, because I had, I had already cooked it, cleaned it, put it on a menu and served it to the general public. So that kind of like speed learning was, you know, really a great gift. And, you know, kind of like jump started, my my love of hunting and cooking wild mushrooms, because I already had, like, this really good basis of education as, like, free on the job training. Unknown Speaker 3:27 Yeah, it's so well. So I've been living in Austin for the last four years, and Austin's really dry. I don't know if you've ever been here, but, Unknown Speaker 3:36 and it's a city, so we don't you know, there's some farms and some local stuff, but I'm a forager as well, and I got spoon fed because for eight years before this, I lived in Western Massachusetts, we had tons of farms, and foraging was available everywhere. And so I spent like, eight years every meal that I had was, you know, local with crazy vegetables that are heirloom that I've never even heard of, and wild forage foods. And now I'm here, and I'm a little bummed out, because the restaurant scene is incredible, like the food the restaurants here unbelievable, but I do miss cooking with really good ingredients, and just like walking out in my backyard and wild forging all this cool stuff that I could bring, and my friends were farmers. So yeah, for people who have never experienced that, it does change your life forever. I think it's such an amazing experience to taste food that is hyper local and really interesting stuff that you'd never even heard of and know how to cook. Unknown Speaker 4:44 What would you say is like your first or your most formative experience finding a wild mushroom and cooking it well? The first one, technically the first one I ever found was a morel. Unknown Speaker 5:00 Yeah, but it was just like, one Morel. So really, like my formative experience, like the one that sticks out was I found a chicken of the woods, like the day after, I had just cooked some for the restaurant menu, but then I went camping with my girlfriend, and it was her idea. I didn't do a lot of camping, and we pitched our tent in the campsite. And then I just started, you know, walking around the campsite. There was two hen of the woods in our campsite, and then we found a chicken of the woods on a tree with like, 50 pounds and Umbrella polypore like, all in like, this one little camping trip over, like, 24 hours. So, like, I packed the car full of mushrooms. And that was really when I when I saw, like, the bounty and the, you know, the amounts that you can bring home just by finding, you know, four or five mushrooms, when they're these big ones, that it just blew me away. And I was like, oh, man, I'm gonna be rich, Unknown Speaker 6:01 because you don't make, you don't make any money cooking in restaurants. So I was like, oh, like, I can sell mushrooms to the restaurant that I work at, and I would, and that kind of jump started, you know, my my self tuition, because now I wanted to know, like, other mushrooms that I didn't know, but I would bring them into the restaurant and charge the restaurant for them, and then put them on the menu, because I wanted to be the best cook in the restaurant. And, you know, I thought I'd give me a couple extra bucks. You know, in reality, Unknown Speaker 6:34 I'd be lucky to fill my gas tank with the money. Like, it's not that much at all. But like, at first, when you see, like, the volume and stuff like that, it's just like, you know, it's awe inspiring. And, yeah, that was, that was really the first, like, the really the first time where I picked a big amount, and, just like, had more mushrooms than I knew what to do with. And just like, cooking them all, you know, every day for like, a week. Do you remember what that chicken in the woods dish that you were serving currently at the restaurant. And do you remember, like, what recipes that you cooked with the all that chicken in the woods? Oh, knowing me, so I ran a vegetarian tasting menu, and then a meat tasting menu and mushrooms would usually go into the vegetarian menu. And knowing me, it was likely some kind of gnocchi, Unknown Speaker 7:23 probably with a little bit of cream and lemon and herbs. Is so good with chicken of the woods because they have that kind of, like acidic touch to them, especially with the younger mushrooms, that'll be kind of more pronounced, but yeah, probably gnocchi, because I can churn them out, and they're really good. Everybody likes them, and they just go great with mushrooms. What? How was it powdered and put with the flour? Was it stuffed? Was it like in the in a sauce? Or how would you, oh, no, just the tender edges of the mushroom cut up. There's actually a recipe on my site for it with gnocchi, actually, and cook the mushrooms, maybe add a little bit of shallot, a splash of wine, add the gnocchi, a splash of cream, and then lemon zest and lemon juice and fresh herbs right at the end. And of course, you know, cheese, that sounds amazing. That sounds awesome. Yeah, it's one of the, one of the best ways to have chicken in the woods. Like little bit of cream, and then lemon zest and lemon juice right at the end. Unknown Speaker 8:24 You know, chicken in the woods. I don't know if you probably saw it, and maybe you Unknown Speaker 8:30 were, were part of the reason why, why it became so popular for a little bit. But people were, were making, like, vegan Chick fil A chicken sandwiches, but with chicken in the woods. And so they would recreate this, like really famous Chick fil A chicken sandwich, but with chicken in the woods. And they would, you know, like, fry it. Like, bread it and fry it. Have you ever tried that, like a chicken sandwich with, oh yeah, no. It's one of my favorite ways to treat them. When you have a good when you have a good young one. That's a nice, big piece that you can cook in a single piece. All I do is flour, egg, flour, and then a shallow fry in oil. And I call it chicken fried chicken of the woods. It's one of the oldest recipes for chicken of the woods that I have on my site. And I have a number of them, like, last year, oh, it's so crazy. I found one chicken of the woods that was like five pounds just in a rectangular block before the the shelves had formed. So I was able to just, like, cut it into like, inch thick steaks, like top to bottom. I'd never had one that was that tender top to bottom. Nice. Yeah. No, it's it. It's really interesting, because, have you seen, like, the this Unknown Speaker 9:46 the square or the cubed Unknown Speaker 9:49 watermelon, I think it's in Japan or maybe China that they Yeah. I mean, it was, it was for shipping, but I'm sure with new cultivation techniques and things like. Unknown Speaker 10:00 At, Unknown Speaker 10:01 we can, we can grow some really cool mushrooms, like shaped already, in a circle, or whatever, like a Unknown Speaker 10:09 package, or something like that. That'd be, that'd be really cool for anyone who wants a new business idea, that that might be one. But, Unknown Speaker 10:17 yeah, I, I think we have similar health journeys. I also got Lyme multiple times in my life. And totally, Unknown Speaker 10:27 yeah, totally life changing. But I just want to hear your story of, you know, how you got Lyme and how that kind of affected your journey. Oh, yeah, no, it affected me big time. So I was, I was a little careless. I'd been going out, you know, bushwhacking through the woods, and I knew that line was a thing, and I kind of knew a little bit of what to look for, like Bullseye rashes and things like that. Unknown Speaker 10:52 I remember taking some people out. I think I like, they paid me like, 50 bucks to take them out and pick some lobster mushrooms. And I remember picking two deer ticks out of my chest, and just kind of like not thinking about them. Yeah, and then I'd been up by the Boundary Waters, and probably had some up there, and it's like a week later, I actually the only mushroom that ever made me sick was one that I didn't cook correctly, and it was a lexine. And I I ate just like a couple slices by pouring hot broth over them, which does not thoroughly cook mushrooms, especially if it's in a cold bowl. And it made me, it made me pretty sick, and I'm looking online and being a hypochondriac, thinking, like, Oh, I've, like, destroyed my kidney or something, and it's totally fine. I'm just going to get sick, Unknown Speaker 11:40 and is have, you know, some GI issues for 24 hours, but I was scared enough that I went into the went into urgent care, and they did some tests, and, Unknown Speaker 11:52 you know, didn't really think much of anything, and neither did I. But then a few days later, then I started feeling really bad. And what happened was it kind of overlapped with the Lyme. And after a few days, I had solid ovals, like, all over my all over my body. And then I knew something was wrong. And I was like, Oh, I have Lyme. I need to go in. So I remember, I Unknown Speaker 12:22 remember going in Unknown Speaker 12:24 and having to, like, beg them to do the Western Blot. Unknown Speaker 12:30 Well, actually, when I'd gone into urgent care before I went in, they said that nothing's wrong with me. And I went back to the restaurant like, feeling like death. And I I remember Unknown Speaker 12:43 distinctly going back to the restaurant feeling terrible, and then having to plate a party of 60, like the moment I walked in the door, and then I went home, but then the rashes showed up. I went back. They got me on the doxycycline, but then I had the Bell's palsy kicked in. So it was like half of my body didn't work, just like split down the middle. Unknown Speaker 13:05 I had to cook with earplugs in. I had to wear an eye patch. My left eye, like sunk into the back of my head. And more importantly, there was a complication with the with neurology, and I had a pre existing condition called cluster headaches that it really exacerbated. That kind of made it so I can't have any gluten now. And alcohol is also pretty rough on me, but it made me have cluster headache attacks, where I would have attacks one month out of the year before. Now I had them. And I could, like, feel it in my mind. I could, like in my body. I could it was, it was so crazy. I could feel it like blowing out of proportion. And then I had attacks, like four to five times a day, every day of the year. And that went on for about two years until, like, it was absolutely miserable. It's like the lowest part of my life. Finally, I got on some herb supplements. But really getting off of the gluten was a bigger thing, getting off the gluten. And, you know, really like having no beer, especially to help me out a lot. But that was, yeah, it was really, really rough. And it took like, six months for the palsy to go away. You know, cooking with the eye patch, Unknown Speaker 14:19 metal pans clinking together, was like a gunshot going off next to my ear, and just like the whole, like unnerving feeling, it felt like there was something sentient inside of my body, like some X Files, shit. Yeah, I mean, there is, Oh yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like, you can feel like there's something intelligent, like inside of my brain, is what it feels. So unnerving. Unknown Speaker 14:41 Yeah, it's so wild. How many people get Lyme, especially if you are in Lyme area, you know? I mean, like I remember growing up, I actually grew up right next to Lyme Connecticut for, you know, a chunk of my childhood, and I used to go to a. Unknown Speaker 15:00 Uh, nature camp, like, all summer in the woods, 24/7 Unknown Speaker 15:04 and and, like, even, and that was in line. And, like, I remember as a kid, just no one really talked about it. And we would get ticks all the time, and we just, like, pick them off, or like, flush them down the toilet, or like, burn them with a lighter or whatever. And it was, it was so nonchalant, like, and I remember my friend will Steiner, his mom, Peggy Steiner, got Lyme disease to the point where she had to have IV antibiotics. And we thought it was the weirdest thing. We're like, what you have this weird parasite from a tick. Like, I remember as a kid just thinking that was the strangest thing, and I didn't we. No one thought much of it, and now it's so rampant. I mean, ticks are surviving through the winter, and it it really ruins your life. I mean is, I don't want anyone to get Lyme disease, and I you know anyone who's in Lyme country, please take extreme precautions, because it, yeah, it will mess up your life for sure. Yeah, and it's not just lime. Now, you know, there's so many other things like Babesia and starry and the lone star tick and people getting, you know, allergies to mammalian meat, which I've, I've, I've also heard that there's some, you're like, you have entire, like, websites now dedicated to, like, alpha gal friendly cooking, because they can only eat, you know, poultry and fish and mostly it's like these big game hunters. It's really unfortunate. I've also heard some people have recovered from it with the with certain treatments. So, so that's promising, but, yeah, it's terrifying, because there's, like, so many more things that you need to worry about now. Where before it was, like, just Lyme, yeah, and, and it affects everyone differently, like, I never got the Bell's Palsy. My cousin did. Unknown Speaker 16:54 I got a whole array of other symptoms, you know. And, and for some people, they can take doxycycline for two weeks, and they're fine. Other people, it's chronic for life, and they could try eight bazillion things, but doesn't really matter. I'm in the later category, so I'll have it for life, and you just kind of have to adapt. Unknown Speaker 17:14 And yeah, it, you know, for any mushroom foragers listening. Like, definitely look out for it. Like, don't Unknown Speaker 17:23 take your precautions. Tuck your pant legs into your socks. I know it looks a little dorky, but do it because you don't want Lyme disease. Like, take, take those precautions. Because it's, yeah, it's very serious. And I treat all my clothes. I treat a couple outfits with permethrin. And that was permethrin. Was really, that was like the Unknown Speaker 17:43 that was the only way I could get back into the woods and actually feel safe, because I would go out and, you know, I wouldn't see a single tick. So that that was a real game changer for me. Unknown Speaker 17:59 I don't know if I would still be going outside if I didn't have permethrin treated outfits. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the reasons why I moved to Austin, because we don't really have lime here. We have the lone star tick. But yeah, I mean, that would suck to not ever eat a burger again. But Unknown Speaker 18:18 yeah, I'd rather have that thin line. But, you know, an interesting story. My mom was working all the time when I was a kid, so she never cooked at all, and then when she quit her job, she devoted herself to taking a bunch of cooking lessons and things like that, and she said it was the most spiritual practice that she could do Unknown Speaker 18:41 with practicing non attachment, because she would make these beautiful dishes, and then in like 30 seconds it would disappear in front of her. And she had to, like, really practice that. Unknown Speaker 18:54 Yeah, that, like Buddhist mentality of non attachment, of, Unknown Speaker 18:58 you know, making these beautiful creations, and then watching it disappear in front of you. And I just wanted to ask, like, as a chef, and also, you know, like making dishes, but also, Unknown Speaker 19:08 restaurants are notorious for having a short business lifespan. You know, businesses flop left and right in the restaurant world. So is that a practice in your life? And you know, how, how how do you deal with kind of non attachment for both the places that you work at, and then also your your dishes that you create? Unknown Speaker 19:30 Yeah, I think there's a lot to unpack there. So I mean, every single restaurant I've ever, I ever worked at is closed. Yeah, they have, Unknown Speaker 19:38 they have a short lifespan, and it that was frustrating and, you know, slightly traumatizing when it was like, places that I was running and I'm like, watching, like, watching it burn, you know, all around me that that was really difficult. And, you know, part of the reason that I left the restaurant industry, as far as like, food and. Unknown Speaker 20:00 Making dishes for people and things like that, and kind of the ephemeral nature of food and it being gone, you know, after someone eats it. I mean, that's like, I always kind of saw that just as, like, part of the craft and part of the deal. And, Unknown Speaker 20:17 you know, I'm like, a perpetual learner. I'm very curious. And I went, I remember not getting one job because I told the chef, like, one of my goals is to, like, never make the same thing twice. And, you know, that takes some explaining too, because I'll make things that are very similar. But I love the experimentation and the creation and the new, new, new, like, we're always trying to improve Unknown Speaker 20:43 and things like that. So, you know, that was kind of always part of the deal for me. Unknown Speaker 20:52 But as far as, like, the restaurants, you know, one thing that that I've really, I've thought about that that is helpful for me. It's like, you know, all the restaurants I worked at are closed, and at first I was like, oh, you know, I don't have that platform to to cook for people, but what I do now is is really very different. And I I get to give people, you know, things that they can hold on to, like for the rest of their life, you know, if I would have, Unknown Speaker 21:24 you know, in a good in a, like, a banner year at the first restaurant that I ran, maybe like 50,000 people would come in and, you know, eat and have a good time, Hopefully. And now with my website, I mean, Unknown Speaker 21:42 I'll have and shoot Unknown Speaker 21:47 50 to 100,000 people come in a week, and these people are not eating food that I make for them. I'm teaching them how to cook for themselves. And you know, they're learning practical things that they can take with them for the rest of their life. So, you know, that is like a permanent thing, you know, like much more so than going into a restaurant and, you know, buying a plate in gnocchi, and then just leaving and remembering, oh, I had a good plate in gnocchi. Now someone can be like, I know how to make this myself. And I want to make it for my kids after we go out and pick mushrooms in the woods, and they're going to remember it and, like, we're going to create family memories and bonding and meaningful interaction. And I mean that, I mean to me, is so rewarding. Like i i would get, you know, letters from guests and things like that on occasion, or people would scribble things on receipts from the restaurant, and now it's like the the gratitude that I get is, I mean, one day last week, I got four emails that were like people pouring their heart out, saying, Thank you so much. This has changed my life. XYZ thing that you've shown me like I will take with me forever, like, just, thank you so much. Like that, you know, just makes my whole heart want to blow up. And I could have never seen that, and I would have never expected that working in a restaurant like thinking something like that was was possible. So it's been, it's been really, really rewarding. Unknown Speaker 23:18 It's so funny. I I always see memes online where someone's like, Oh, can you give your compliments to the chef? Unknown Speaker 23:27 Underneath is like, oh, yeah, we don't have a chef. It's just like a 16 year old named Louise who chains most cigarettes and Unknown Speaker 23:34 is addicted to Monster Energy drinks and stuff like Unknown Speaker 23:39 that like but it is, it is very interesting. You know, I will preface this by saying, Unknown Speaker 23:45 I think as human beings exploring the human experience, we all have Unknown Speaker 23:52 a wide array of Unknown Speaker 23:55 emotions and and Unknown Speaker 23:58 and a darkness to everyone, and everyone suffers in their own way. But it seems like the stereotype for chefs in restaurants is like, Unknown Speaker 24:08 extremely stressed out, kind of depressed chain smoking cigarettes, maybe, you know, doing cocaine and just like, yelling at each other. And Unknown Speaker 24:19 there's Yeah, and I don't know if it's just like a US thing, where, you know, Unknown Speaker 24:26 if your restaurant does tips in the kitchen, like, you know, I don't. I don't know if it's just a US thing, because our tipping Unknown Speaker 24:36 structure is different than the most places in the world. Or, you know, Unknown Speaker 24:43 I mean, even like Anthony Bourdain as a prime example, like an incredible human being, amazing chef, but there's like, this darkness to him, that all my chef friends have it. And I'm just curious, like, is that stereotype true? And where do you think it comes? Unknown Speaker 25:00 From, Unknown Speaker 25:02 and do you think that Unknown Speaker 25:04 cooking and working in a kitchen is is like a sense of therapy for for that? Unknown Speaker 25:12 Well, I I mean, on, like, the dark aspect of it. I mean, absolutely. Unknown Speaker 25:18 I mean, I saw so many interesting things in my time in the industry. I mean, I basically grew up, you know, working with drug addicts and convicts, convicted murderers, felons, Unknown Speaker 25:31 military vets who were irreparably, you know, traumatized, and fit in very well in a kitchen with the hierarchy, which is, you know, comparable to the militaristic hierarchy. And I mean that, that part of it is, like, absolutely true. I think some of the reasons are, you know, a lot, there's a lot of them, and it can be difficult to unpack them, but it's, you know, a kitchen job is one of the only things he one of the jobs that you can get having a felony, you know. So that, that right there, you know, is makes it, makes it easier for a lot of people to kind of get back on their feet, you know, after they go to prison or something like hide an entire dish crew that was out on prison release, and two of the guys, this is, I mean, it's a tangent, but two of the guys ended up going in, like, robbing a sandwich shop in a gas station because they wanted to go back, like Unknown Speaker 26:22 they couldn't even function in normal society, that it's like that was all they knew. I don't think that's, you know, very unique. I think that happens more than we would probably like to think. So, you know, the kitchen's always been like a place for renegades. And, you know, I was definitely it renegade myself, and still am in some some respects, as far as, like, the therapeutic aspect, I don't think a lot of people will get into cooking, like, because they see that. I think people see stuff on social media and on TV, and they think it's like, you know, glamorous Unknown Speaker 26:58 it can be, but that's like, the top, like, 2% like most of the people are like, they are like the guy you were talking about, chugging Monster Energy, you know, eating half rotten chicken, standing over a garbage can in between to rush as fast as they can, because that's the staff meal, you know. Then going out after work and drinking themselves into into stupor and like, like I did for for many years, is like, that was the culture. We'd go out and get hammered, and I'd wake up at 1pm and go to work at, you know, drag my corpse out of bed and go into work at 2pm and do it all over again. Is a meat grinder. Is a meat grinder. But the cooking itself has, you know, very therapeutic aspects to it. And, you know, some things that come to mind for me, it's like, you know, just like mushroom hunting, cooking has the ability to transport you, transport your mind, and allow you to, like, completely focus on something that's in the moment Unknown Speaker 27:56 and within that. You know, there's also, like, there's craft elements to to study, like, similar to, like woodworking, because cooking is a craft. It's not an art, but it has artistic elements, you know, as far as, like, plating and things like that. Or, you know, how you cut a vegetable, how you show off the ingredient. And that can be, you know, that's very, very rewarding Unknown Speaker 28:20 in the right, in the right context. Unknown Speaker 28:24 But when you're taking when you're cooking, you know, Unknown Speaker 28:28 everything else can kind of, like, melt away. And, you know, kind of being in that flow state, which mushroom hunting is very similar. And I use that that way too, but that can be very therapeutic, you know, giving you a chance to, you know, force yourself to forget about everything else and just focus on what you're doing in the moment. You know, my life's taken a lot of different turns, but one thing's been that's been constant is that I always cook. I cook when I'm happy, sad, angry, frustrated, creatively, stumped, bored, and, you know, of course, when I'm hungry, and that I think a lot of cooks are similar in that way. But, you know, just having something, having hobbies, you know, mushroom hunting and cooking, both having hot those hobbies that can kind of just make you forget about whatever is going on good or bad in your life, at least for, you know, like an hour or two, you know that that is absolutely a therapeutic and it's very therapeutic for me. You knows mushroom hunting was, you know, like I said, you don't make money cooking, but mushroom hunting was something I could do that was free, and I could learn something. And I kind of new like this. It's like, my thing like this could be something that, like, you know, sets me apart from other chefs. Like other chefs don't know how to do this. They just buy their mushrooms. You know, how cool it would it be to be able to to know and pick and cook them on, on my own Unknown Speaker 29:58 little side tangent. But I. Unknown Speaker 30:00 But another kind of a stereotype for chefs is that I hear this all the time, especially, you know, if you're, Unknown Speaker 30:09 you know, have a partner at home, and I hear people say, Oh, you're so lucky. You have, like, a chef, a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. Like when they come home, do they make you, like, the most amazing dishes? And they're like, No, all they want to do is order like, really shitty Chinese food, or like shitty pizza, or like McDonald's or something like that, like, and they're like, work at a Michelin star restaurant, and I hear this all the time, and where it's like, they're kind of sick of that stuffy environment, and like, almost, Unknown Speaker 30:42 they're like, plating Michelin star food for, you know, 10 hours straight, and all they want to do is order McDonald's when they get like, Do you Do you empathize with that? Like, do you do the same thing? Or are you Unknown Speaker 30:57 always cooking? And, you know, never, never get sick of it. Unknown Speaker 31:02 Well, I am definitely not like that. I think a lot of my friends are, and a lot of my friends will like, you know, go home. They just want to, like, crush junk food or whatever. I Unknown Speaker 31:13 i would get off of my shifts, and I would come home and I would cook more nice and, yeah, like I said, Happy, sad, bored, tired, awake, like I'm just always cooking. And it is. It's really the creative part of it, like always trying to experiment being, you know, insatiably curious that that's really me and I, Unknown Speaker 31:36 I don't really eat fast food at all. I don't drink soda. I try to really lay off the junk food. And I'm, I'm cooking every single day for myself. I rarely go out to eat, partially because, you know, you get very sensitive to, you know, working at nice restaurants, if I go to a nice restaurant, oh, I'm going to be picking apart every single thing, right? You know, every single little thing. So I tend to go to like, you know, little mom and pop shops, Unknown Speaker 32:04 Mexican food, South American food. But no, I'm not going home and crushing junk food. I'm cooking all the time, and I'm a that's that is unique, because I know, I know a lot of chefs that don't, and they get tired of, of, you know, cooking at work and then coming home to cook. I'm not making, you know, extremely fancy food at home. It's, it's very simple, but it's clean and good and seasonal and makes me feel good about what I'm putting into my body so I can under. I understand why, but that's not me. Yeah, yeah. And moving more towards, you know, actually cooking mushrooms. We've been talking about a lot of things, but Unknown Speaker 32:45 for me, it, it breaks my heart whenever I go to a restaurant. And Unknown Speaker 32:51 one the first thing, if I just see mushrooms on the menu, I won't order it like if they don't say what kind of mushroom I already know it's but in mushrooms and 99 times out of 100 it's going to be undercooked, it's going to be slimy and chewy, and it's kind of gross, and it breaks my heart that, like most people who I had the benefit of already loving mushrooms. So if I have badly cooked mushrooms, then you know, I'm still going to love mushrooms at the end of the day. For people who don't already love mushrooms, this happens all the time, where they eat undercooked, badly cooked, but in mushrooms, and then they write all mushrooms off as being really bad. And I kind of get it, you know. Unknown Speaker 33:36 Where do you think that you know, Unknown Speaker 33:41 because United States is kind of Unknown Speaker 33:45 mushroom phobic, that there's just a big learning gap with cooking, that people just don't know how to cook mushrooms. And because of that, this happens. Or, you know, why do you why do you think so many people don't know how to cook mushrooms correctly. Unknown Speaker 34:04 Well. I mean, how to cook mushrooms correctly? It's like, what a Pandora's box is like, which species are we talking about? You know, there's so many, there's so many different ways to unpack that. Unknown Speaker 34:16 I mean, yeah, but mushrooms are not too exciting. But on the other side of things is like, Unknown Speaker 34:23 chefs kind of want to think that they know everything like about food. It's when you get into a place where you are running your own kitchen and like, everyone's like, Yes, chef, it's like you kind of become like, king of your own little feet, right? Unknown Speaker 34:38 And it can be kind of an insular world. And you people can get taught things that are silly or improper or it is not the best way to do something that, for example, like I would say, butt mushrooms are relatively easy to cook. I think they're kind of hard to they're kind of hard to mess up. But wild mushrooms can. Unknown Speaker 35:00 Be really, really tricky, and they are just such a higher level of learning. You know, just because you're a chef, just because you went to culinary school, this does not mean that you know how to cook elites, or, you know, you know the best way to cook chanterelles. If you have a whole bunch of beautiful, beautiful buttons and you tell your cooks to mince them or something like that, or make puree them, God forbid. Unknown Speaker 35:23 A good example is I went to the chef has been around for a long time, and picks his own mushrooms, and he had wild rice soup on the menu. Actually brought a date there last year, and the restaurant's now closed, but she, I think she wanted to impress me, and she ordered the wild mushroom and wild rice soup. And I could see the look on her face was like, she took her first bite. She was like, repulsed. And I was like, Oh, I wonder what kind of mushrooms are in that. I took a look. I could I took one look at the bowl. I didn't even need to eat it. I could see that it was so Willis, americanis, okay, of all the wild mushrooms this guy chose to put in his wild rice soup. He put a slippery Jack and one that kind of tastes like cat this, and the pores are like, really, they're really chewy, and you can feel them on your tongue. And it's like, I don't want to, like, you ruin this whole like, really, like, just use a Chad trail. I mean that use some morels. Use one that tastes good, but because he picked them, he wanted to put them in there, I'm assuming, and Unknown Speaker 36:26 you know, better, to grind those into powder or something like that. So it's like, you know, each individual species has its own caveats and drawbacks, and you know, takes studying and experimentation. And you know, just experience to to know how to to make them taste good. Because, yeah, if someone doesn't like mushrooms, and they go, they go out on a limb, like this woman I was on a date with, I'm assuming was, she's probably not going to order mushrooms so for a long time, or whatever. And that's unfortunate. My brother is one of them. He Yeah, he's, he's like, I respect that. You love mushrooms so much, but for eating them, you know? He's like, I've tried them, I'm good. And I'm like, you haven't tried the right ones cook correctly. And he's like, Nope, I'm good. I've had my my, you know, food trauma for my life. And I'm good, you know? And I'm like, Okay, I can't force feed you, but, but it is heartbreaking, you know, Unknown Speaker 37:24 eating really good mushrooms that are cooked right for that species, and then hearing people like, have a terrible experience like your date, and being like, oh, man, like I it, it breaks my heart to see that. Like people, um, yeah, get turned off by mushrooms, just because, you know, they had a chef that didn't know how to prepare it properly. And, you know, there's, like, a couple things, like eggplant is kind of a prime example. Like, if you don't really cook eggplant correctly, it's really bad, you know, or, like, Brussels sprouts or spinach, or, you know, there's, there's a lot of things in it that, Unknown Speaker 38:05 like, it's kind of hard to to mess up, like pasta or pizza or even like sushi. Like, there's a big gap between really good sushi and mediocre sushi, but I'm still gonna eat mediocre sushi and be like, this is pretty good. Like, I'm still gonna eat more sabiana, yeah? Like, it's still sushi at the end of the day Unknown Speaker 38:25 with mushrooms. It's like, yeah, mediocre mushrooms are bad. Like, I won't eat them. And it's, it's, it's kind of heartbreaking that they are so easy to mess up, Unknown Speaker 38:38 and most people mess them up, unfortunately. So that being said, like for people listening, who maybe have never cooked mushrooms, are at that stage where every time they cook them or eat them, they are not that big of a fan of them, or they're already cooking them, but they want to get better. Do you have any kind of I know you said it depends on the species. But any tips for for beginner mushroom cookers who want to get better at their craft? Yeah, well, one of the most important things is just making sure your mushrooms are clean. So like we're in shit where you're at peak channerelle season. I went out and picked five pounds in an hour last night. And every year, people send me pictures of these just filthy baskets filled with dirt and, like, with wild mushrooms, having them clean is extremely important, you know, because if someone, oh, they're going out on a limb, they're going to try the the cream chanterelles, or the sauteed chanterelles, or whatever they're making, if they bite into that, and, like, Unknown Speaker 39:41 get a bunch of sand, or, even worse, like, Chip a tooth, which I had someone do on a hand of the woods, Unknown Speaker 39:48 where a rock grew inside of the flesh. Wow, the polypore, yeah. And the restaurant had to pay for a new crown. Unknown Speaker 39:56 You know that, like, first and foremost, you got to pick clean and. Unknown Speaker 40:00 Make sure that you're cleaning stuff. Don't put dirty stem mushrooms. Don't just, like, pick them out and put the dirty stems in the basket. You just ruined them. And then one of the most important things is, like, generally speaking, we want to put some color on them, you know, if you're talking about, uh, talk a little bit about, like, slimy mushrooms and things like that, caramelizing them and cooking them down, cooking their water out, so that they they can get a little bit of browning on them, you know, not a ton, but just just enough to kind of get the the Maillard reaction and get some caramelization, you know, that can be, make a huge difference with a lot of different types of mushrooms, and make them taste way better. And then another thing is season your food, but season your food with salt. Like, probably the biggest thing that I end up telling home cooks, I mean, my mom, my grandma, my friends parents, is you Unknown Speaker 40:54 just didn't season this with enough salt. Like, I can't, I can't taste it's, it's going to taste better when you season it. And sometimes, you know, I'll serve, I'll just have a little crunchy salt on the side. And people can then, just like, season things to taste at the table with some really nice salt. But making sure that you are seasoning your food too is very important. And seasoning and tasting, seasoning and tasting it is nothing for let's say, I'm making a soup, it's nothing for me to taste and season that soup, you know, four or five, six times before I'm pleased with it. And that's with many, many different dishes. You know, seasoning and tasting your food repeatedly is is one of the most important things that you can do. Unknown Speaker 41:37 Do you what are your favorite mushroom recipes to cook, if you can narrow it down. Unknown Speaker 41:44 Oh man. Unknown Speaker 41:46 Matsutake miso soup is, like, so simple and so good and such, like a pure minimalist way, like a lot of my stuff is very minimalist, and a lot of times with mushrooms, the more ingredients you put in the dish, the less you will be able to taste the mushrooms like very you know, mushroom cooking is very minimalist, Unknown Speaker 42:05 very, very simple, and you just don't keep don't make things complicated. Mataki Miso soup. I mean, when I get a good like, a really nice chicken of the woods, like fried chicken of the woods is great. I mean, Unknown Speaker 42:19 fried morels, of course, you know this. Those are some of just my, my basic favorites, and cooking up a nice big variety during variety season of a whole bunch of different types, Unknown Speaker 42:31 like with dried mushrooms. I have this really great recipe for it's called the Zupa de fungi. And basically, I made it for mushroom hunters, because we all have, like, jars of dried mushrooms sitting in our pantries, and you could take a whole bunch of different types of dried mushrooms and make them into the soup that is so good. And it can be different, like every time, and you can use, like, whatever mushrooms you have that are dried it's easy to make that is, that's really one of my favorites, because it's so versatile. And, you know, relies specifically on dried mushrooms, which is, like, you know, that's a recipe by a mushroom Hunter, for mushroom hunters. Unknown Speaker 43:11 I think one of the Unknown Speaker 43:16 one of my aches with eating mushrooms, and it depends on the variety. I mean, like, I love wood ears that are in, like a vinegar soak, like pickled whit ears, those are amazing. Unknown Speaker 43:28 But, like typical mushrooms, like oyster, shiitake, you know, lactarious siliciosis, even, you know, a lot of times, chanterelles, etc, morels, like having cooking them for a really long time until they're like, really golden brown. I one of my icks is when people undercook mushrooms and you can still, like, taste the the water content of them, and they kind of like squish and the textures really, like, Unknown Speaker 44:03 Yeah, I'm like, fibrous and like, just gross. Like, I can't it's really, it's really gross. And soups, like I had, I had, like, when you were describing that soup, I was like, oh, like, I I've had so many mushroom soups, like your date, where it's like an undercooked mushroom, and I eat it, and I'm like, that's like, a raw mushroom that you barely cooked, that's just floating around in this soup, and I'm just trying to eat it, and it's just, like this undercooked thing in there. Like, no, like, it just, it ruins the dish, you know, and, Unknown Speaker 44:35 but I'm sure your recipe is incredible. I just, I thought I'd say that for that's one of my tips that I give to people. Is like, don't be afraid to cook the shit out of mushrooms. And really, like, evaporate all the water. And really, like, Unknown Speaker 44:53 I had, I had a chance to eat blue chanterelles at Telluride, Colorado A couple years ago. Excellent. So good. Unknown Speaker 45:00 And you could they taste like bacon, like, if you really crisp them to like, a golden, golden brown, and they're like crispy, they taste like bacon. I mean, it's, it's unreal, Unknown Speaker 45:11 yeah, so that's my tip personally, but I'm not a chef, but I think you, you know, if you're just pan frying some mushrooms with salt, pepper, and, you know, maybe some garlic onion just alone. I mean that just the golden brown, supercooked mushrooms are really good. Unknown Speaker 45:30 Yeah, like I said, making sure to making sure to put some color on them, and understanding that that kind of the textural, the textural aspect of different species, like my mushroom soup. I was talking about, all the mushrooms are rehydrated and minced, like, finely chopped. So really, what you get is the flavor in the broth. And there's not, you know, like a whole bunch of different weird textures going on. It's it's uniform, it's pleasing. There's not big things hanging like some slimy slug hanging off your spoon. Like there's none of that, you know, understanding, trying to understand how something is going to feel and taste in someone's mouth when you serve it to them. That is one of the like, higher levels of learning with cooking in general, but it's especially important with mushrooms, especially when we start talking about some of the different species that can have, you know, a mucilaginous quality, or like honey mushrooms can be slippery. And if you say, if you like, boil frozen Honey, honey mushrooms and freeze them like you will never be able to caramelize them like it. It just won't happen because the mucilage is really activated. But you can put them in soup and the small little buttons, if they're small little buttons, they'll have a nice crunchy texture in soup and broth. And that can be very good, you know, so that, you know, understanding the differences which are, you know, many between all these different edible species is, you know, part of the higher level of learning with with cooking mushrooms, that is, you know, is really something I feel like I will never master, and it's like just a perpetual journey and learning experience that's, you know, super rewarding, but also, you know, a learned skill for sure. So I know you got to you got to run pretty soon, because you got a flight to prepare for, but we have couple more questions, maybe speed round for the next five minutes. So then we'll wrap up, unfortunately, because I have a million more questions I would love to to go on. I love food. I love cooking. What is one kind of like mushroom or fungal underdog that you think maybe it's popular in another country, but not as much in the US, or maybe it's just one that no one knows how to cultivate, and is just wild forage, but it's a bit rare. What's one that you're just hyped about, that you think deserves more recognition, specifically, maybe here in the US? Yeah? Black standing polypore for sure. Okay, Unknown Speaker 47:58 they grow. They get really tough, but the the outer edges can be tender enough to eat, but the flavor is just like the flavor is so cool. It's almost like if a hen of the Woods had a baby with a black trumpet. They're so cool. Really good broth, and you can finally mince that tender margin. And I mean, I made like burgers with it. It makes a killer risotto. Use it using that broth. But that is one of the coolest mushroom tastes of any wild mushroom that I've cooked is one of the most interesting, but, you know, definitely an underdog there that can be harvested in, you know, very large quantities when you're in the right place. So, you know, that's probably my first my first thing that I go to is the BSP, or the black standing polypore. I don't think I've ever eaten it. I've seen it. I picked it, but, yeah, it always Unknown Speaker 48:55 is like a tease for my talk. Unknown Speaker 48:59 Cool. Yeah, I'll keep that in mind. If I find it, I'll definitely look on your website for a good, maybe risotto recipe. That's That's awesome. Unknown Speaker 49:08 Where, where do you see yourself in 510, years? Unknown Speaker 49:13 Oh, man, hopefully having my book series done and doing the same thing that I'm doing now, Unknown Speaker 49:22 love it. What? What's your book series? Unknown Speaker 49:24 Uh, well, so there's flora, there's kind of like the plant portion of my life. Then the next one will, might be meat, and then there will be a mushroom book in there somewhere. It's just like, Unknown Speaker 49:36 it is a ton of work. It is so much work. And, you know, I do all the photography too. So I'm, you know, perpetually trying to, you know, I look at the pictures I took of mushrooms 10 years ago that originally I thought I put it in, like, oh, this picture is crap. This is terrible. So I need to retake this. So trying to redo, you know, like, Unknown Speaker 49:55 5060, different types of mushrooms, and with the images you. Unknown Speaker 50:00 Going out and trying to find them. There's a huge undertaking where the plants, they're always there. And then, of course, like the recipes and stuff like that, it's just, it's a lot to Unknown Speaker 50:10 that's a big thing to bite off. Nice. So flora, fauna, funga, the three, the three F's, I love it. Unknown Speaker 50:18 And then, currently, you know, you have Flora out, Unknown Speaker 50:23 and then you have your website where, where can people follow all your work? Maybe buy your book. Unknown Speaker 50:30 Perhaps get in contact with you, learn some recipes. Yeah, where can people find you? Yeah, well, there's most people contact me through my website. I mean, that's foragerschef.com and my you know, newsletter that people have known me for, that I've done every Saturday for 11 and a half years now, Unknown Speaker 50:51 without ever repeating a single time that that goes out to every week. And then I'm on Instagram at forager chef, Unknown Speaker 50:59 my show that was on Apple TV and won the James Beard award in 2022 that is now free to watch on Vimeo. It's called Field Forest Feast. It's so well done. I mean, my videographer won two beards and an Emmy and films for the Magnolia channel. He's super talented, so that's a really good watch. Unknown Speaker 51:18 But, yeah, that's my websites and Instagram. That's usually how people will get in touch with me. Yeah? My books on Amazon, yeah. Congrats on your book, your website, the show, Unknown Speaker 51:30 that's awesome, man, yeah. And you're, you're making me really excited. I'm going to tell your eye mushroom festival in a month. And nice. It's just always just 24/7, foraging, cooking solid is at least for me, you know, I don't really go to the workshops anymore. It's just like going out on the woods with my friends, foraging and then just cooking big meals for people. And it's definitely my highlight of the year. Unknown Speaker 51:55 So I can't wait, because here in Austin, Texas, we do not have wild mushrooms. We have, like, it's very, you know, a couple days a year scattered. Maybe we'll find somewhere else, shunterelles, some reishi, but, uh, Slim Pickens here, so I miss it. Um, but yeah, thanks for coming on and thank you for everyone for tuning in and shrooming into another mushroom revival podcast episode. Hope you learned a lot in this episode. Unknown Speaker 52:23 If you want to support the show, we don't have a direct way that you can Unknown Speaker 52:28 donate financially. We don't have a Patreon or anything like that, but we do have Unknown Speaker 52:33 a mother company, mushroom revival, and we have a whole line of organic mushroom supplements, from gummies, capsules, tinctures, powders, and we have a coupon code just for listeners of the show, and that is VIP or, sorry, it's pod treat. The coupon code is pod treat for a surprise discount code if you don't want to spend any money, we have a giveaway going on where you pick a winner once a month to win some mushroom goodies. We also have a bunch of free stuff on our website, from ebooks to blog posts, everything from psilocybin, functional mushrooms, foraging, cooking, etc. Definitely check out Alan's website as well for some amazing recipes. And Unknown Speaker 53:19 apart from that, just tell your friends. Unknown Speaker 53:22 You know, if you learned something cool this episode, or just a fun fact about mushrooms, we want to spread the passion about mushrooms, maybe cook to your friends at mushroom dish, get them, turn them onto mushrooms, not turn them off. And yeah, as always, much love and may the spores Be With You. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
