Mycofiltration with Sanele Michelle Mnkandla

Alisa Nappa January 23, 2025

mycelium-ebook

Today we travel to South Africa to sit down with Sanele Michelle Mnkandla to talk about how we can filter toxic waste with fungi in a process called mycofiltration. We chat about her new published paper "Effectiveness of mycofiltration for removal of contaminants from water: a systematic review protocol" (2021) and about how people can get involved in future projects with mycoremediation. Tune in and Shroom in to todays episode!

TRANSCRIPT

Unknown Speaker 0:00 Alex, Unknown Speaker 0:12 welcome, welcome. You are listening to the mushroom revival podcast. I'm your host, Alex Dorr, and we are absolutely obsessed with the wonderful, wacky, mysterious world of mushrooms and fungi. We bring on guests and experts from all around the globe to geek out with us and go down this mysterious rabbit hole to try to figure out what the heck is going on with this, this fungal world. And today, we have sunnel Joining us from South Africa to talk about fungal filtration, microfiltration, microremediation. So how you doing Unknown Speaker 0:47 good? Alex, how are you Unknown Speaker 0:50 good? Yeah, thanks for coming on for people who don't know you and your work. Who are you and what are you up to? Unknown Speaker 0:58 Okay, thanks Unknown Speaker 1:00 for having me, and hi to everyone who's listening. So I am sane lemganza. I'm a PhD candidate at the University of the Free State in South Africa. Unknown Speaker 1:12 I'm in the department of zoology and entomology, and I'm part of the Eco toxicology research group in that department. I also work as a research fellow at the National University of Science and Technology in Zimbabwe, where I am also a member of the ecotoxicology research group there. Unknown Speaker 1:33 So yeah, my research interests are in the ecotox field, and I'm very passionate about bioremediation, and I'm really excited to be here to talk about the microfiltration part of bioremediation. So yeah, really excited. Unknown Speaker 1:56 And would you say that entomology and using, you know, and zoology and using animals and insects to as kind of a Unknown Speaker 2:06 bio indicator for toxology, would you say that's pretty much your your niche, and then micro filtration and fungi are just kind of an added bonus for those animals or insects to check if It works? True? Yeah, you could say that, yes. So in ecotox, that's basically most of what I do. We are used by indicator organisms. I've been working with snails, freshwater snails, so those are the organisms that I normally use when it comes to assessing toxicity and water quality and all of that. So they do come into the story of microfiltration to test the quality of the water after the Unknown Speaker 2:52 microfiltration process. Unknown Speaker 2:56 So how did you originally get into microfiltration? Mycology, mushrooms, fungi, Unknown Speaker 3:02 yeah, so there's a whole story behind where this all started. So it was back in 2017 Unknown Speaker 3:11 I was sitting in the lab during lunch time. Unknown Speaker 3:16 I used to like listening to TED Talks. So anything TED talk was my thing. So I was listening to a TED Talk by Paul Stamets, and he was talking about how mushrooms can save the world. So up until that time, I'd never heard of mushrooms saving the world. I just know them as a good source of protein. You know, we have them on our pizza and all of that. So it really intrigued me. And I listened to his talk, and from there, I just went on to to read everything he's done. I just went down the rabbit hole from there. And then I just started thinking of, okay, maybe I can try this out, let me see how I can Unknown Speaker 4:04 actually get into this. So I then conceptualized a project, and it so happened that there was a call for scholarships by the Organization for Women in Science for the developing world so that they required you to have a concept note and then have a potential supervisor. Unknown Speaker 4:29 And I that I met my supervisor, he had come to our lab in Zimbabwe to train us on this protocol. So I linked up with him and we polished it up together. So that's how I then got the scholarship to go and do my PhD and do the microfiltration project. Unknown Speaker 4:52 So it all started from a TED talk. Unknown Speaker 4:56 I love that. I love TED Talks and and that's a good one. I've. Unknown Speaker 5:00 Like most people listening to this podcast, I've probably heard that one, Unknown Speaker 5:04 very inspirational. And can you talk about your latest paper on Iron three and the other chemical or compound that I'm not gonna try to pronounce, but the microfiltration paper? Yeah. Okay, yeah, exactly, Unknown Speaker 5:22 okay. So with that paper, we were so all the work that that we did were on working in the lab on a lab scale. So we were just testing out single contaminants. So we looked at Iron three or ferric iron. So this is what we normally see in acid mine drainage, and in some instances where it's present in water bodies, as that water is referred to as red water. So it's a problem in the environment. For example, in those water bodies, it causes turbidity that affects the amount of sunlight that enters that Unknown Speaker 6:04 affecting, you know, aquatic life. So we were interested in seeing how microfiltration can Unknown Speaker 6:14 remove that very so we found that there were, there was significant removal. So we were working with the oyster mushroom, that's the species that we use for the filtration process, and we found that there was really up to 80% removal of ferric iron. And we also observed that, Unknown Speaker 6:40 because we tackled it in two ways. First, we had our micro filter. Unknown Speaker 6:48 We did a batch process, again, I don't know if you understand that, but basically we just have we put a small amount of the filter, just one gram, in about 100 mils, on a shaker, and then monitored the removal of the iron three, and we observed that that interaction actually solubilized the metal. So from what we started with and what we ended with, people see that something was happening. So although we didn't test Unknown Speaker 7:19 what was secreted, or the enzymes, or whatever that was, you know, involved in that solubilizing process. We did see that something was happening. And from literature, we know that the types of Unknown Speaker 7:33 metabolites responsible for that are your oxalic acid and acetic acids and your sidereforce so they played a big role in removing the iron three, Unknown Speaker 7:45 and then with imidacloprid, that's a pesticide, Unknown Speaker 7:52 we didn't see much removal compared to the iron three, only about 30% of it was removed, but that's a good start in my books, Unknown Speaker 8:04 also considering that, you know, with with microfiltration, or with microremediation as a whole, it depends on the fungal species, so not all of them will work the same when it comes to the contaminants that you're Working on. So maybe for the oyster mushroom we were using, it wasn't the best for removing it appropriate. Maybe a different species could have worked. But Unknown Speaker 8:31 that's that's the species that we had access to. It was really readily accessible and available, and it's quite easy to grow, so Unknown Speaker 8:43 we only worked with that one. So yeah, we saw the removals, and then we did the snails work. We exposed the snails to the micro, filtered media, and yeah, the filtration the enzyme. So we looked at enzyme responses in those snails, the antioxidant enzymes. So we saw that those snails exposed to micro filtered iron three, for example, they were less stressed, as opposed to those exposed to the Unknown Speaker 9:19 unfiltered iron three. Unknown Speaker 9:24 I have a bunch of follow up questions to that, but to first start with, kind of describing what iron three is for people who don't know and why Unknown Speaker 9:37 you don't want it in your water. You're talking about how a lot of times it comes from mild mining trailings, and Unknown Speaker 9:48 how, how is iron three different from, say, iron and red meat that you know someone with anemia might want more iron in their diet. How is that iron different from iron three? Unknown Speaker 10:00 Three and Unknown Speaker 10:04 yeah, Unknown Speaker 10:06 I'm curious. I'm pretty terrible at chemistry, so I'm I'm not too familiar with with the the difference. Yeah, okay, so iron exists in Unknown Speaker 10:19 two forms. We've got the iron three and iron two. So the iron three is the insoluble one. So that is the one that precipitates. Unknown Speaker 10:29 I don't think it's the one that we find find in it is mentioned. Unknown Speaker 10:35 But with iron three, because it precipitates, it becomes a problem, as I mentioned, if it's found in water bodies, it becomes a problem for aquatic life that is in the the turbidity that it causes, and also, because it's a precipitate, it settles on on food sources for the organisms that are in that water body, so it's going to affect their feeding. And if they do consume that, then it's going to Unknown Speaker 11:10 cause problems in their systems. For example, that iron three can be an endocrine disruptor and can also lead to mortality. Unknown Speaker 11:19 And then when it comes to us, we do have Unknown Speaker 11:24 instances where you have that red water coming out in our taps at homes, and that provides that that that is a risk when once that water is consumed, it's a health risk for us, even even on just using it on your on your on your body, on your skin. It does potentially cause some, you know, skin irritation. So it's a type of Unknown Speaker 11:52 contaminant that we don't really it has no benefit for anyone, for us or any organisms. So if there's something that can remove it, then that's that's a good thing. So we found that with microfiltration, Unknown Speaker 12:09 the oyster mushroom was able to solubilize it, to remove it out of Unknown Speaker 12:15 solution, and either it absorbs it on the surface or takes it up within the cells, Unknown Speaker 12:25 and just a follow up question Unknown Speaker 12:30 about the bio indicators of using snails When? When is that beneficial to use something like snails as a bio indicator, versus just testing the water afterwards and sending it to a lab. Unknown Speaker 12:46 Is it just a lot cheaper to use stales or what? Why? Why would someone want to use that over sending the water to a lab afterwards? Unknown Speaker 12:57 Yeah, so it's not a matter of either or, but using them both, so that just gives us like a wholesome picture when we're looking at when we're concerned about the quality of the water. So the good thing about using bio indicators is that Unknown Speaker 13:18 it gives an indication of what Unknown Speaker 13:22 what happens at a physiological level? Because numbers alone, yes, it may be good that we had this, this much reduction of this contaminant, but what does it mean for this at this level, physiologically speaking? So these bio indicators, because they are sensitive, and they have the ability to bio accumulate these contaminants, then that gives us a nice picture Unknown Speaker 13:50 of how safe, if I can put like that, this micro filtered water is now. So that is the the advantage of of making sure that we use them both together, we measure the levels, Unknown Speaker 14:05 send them to some lab, measure the levels, and then also doing these exposure studies that then tell us the effect at a physiological level. Unknown Speaker 14:17 I read an article about how in Poland, I don't know if it's a specific city in Poland, but they're using clams, and I think mussels as well, with little springs glued to their back. And I think, based on my memory, if they're open, that means that the water is clean, and it's great, but if there's any toxins in the water, the clamps close, and there's springs on their back, like, push a button and send a signal. And I thought that was such a really, you know, a funny way to monitor, you know, water quality. It's so simple, but Unknown Speaker 14:56 it seemed pretty effective. But by the way, there. Unknown Speaker 15:00 Using it. So I'm curious with microfiltration. You know, Unknown Speaker 15:07 what are some of the drawbacks of microfiltration, and what are some of the current alternatives? Unknown Speaker 15:15 You know, what do we currently use for filtering and remediating iron three and Unknown Speaker 15:22 Amido clopid Is I pronounce it? I'm not sure. Unknown Speaker 15:28 Yeah, Unknown Speaker 15:30 okay, um, I think the biggest drawback, at least, that I experienced while working in the lab is a problem known as channeling. So because we're working with the column, so the filter is loaded in a column. So the fact that also the filter itself is it's heterogeneous in nature. So there the substrate that we use, there's some large pieces, or, okay, we try to make to to make those the pieces as homogenous as possible. But because we were using straw as a substrate, so you can cut up straw and try to cut, you know, equal pieces, but there'll be some that are flatter, some that are thicker, Unknown Speaker 16:20 and even though the mycelia spread all over the substrate, once the liquid enters it, will follow a certain path that it prefers, and that may result in some parts of the filter not being utilized. So there's a risk of under utilization, and, you know, not having the most Unknown Speaker 16:43 or having your filter working. So optimally, you know, the best would to have the whole unit operating, removing the contaminants, but then you'll have some portions that remain Unknown Speaker 16:57 are not utilized. So I'll say that that is one of the drawbacks. Unknown Speaker 17:03 Other possible drawbacks would be the fact that, Unknown Speaker 17:07 like I mentioned earlier, not all species work the same, so you may have to Unknown Speaker 17:16 optimize or try out or explore different species depending on the contaminants that you're interested in removing, and also you need a good substrate. And Unknown Speaker 17:32 species combination substrate also matters. So yeah, although the technology is supposed to be, you know, cheap and low tech. Sometimes the best substrate, you don't really have access to it, so you may then need to, you know, think in other terms, make another try another type of substrate. So that can be a challenge itself. Yeah. So I'll say those are the challenges that, Unknown Speaker 18:03 the drawbacks that are associated with microfiltration. Unknown Speaker 18:08 I know a lot of home filters will use activated carbon or charcoal, Unknown Speaker 18:15 and I see that a lot in a lot of water filters, and it seems like a pretty cheap material that you can, I think, make pretty homogenous, Unknown Speaker 18:27 and it seems like a, you know, anyone can make it anywhere, if they have access to wood. Unknown Speaker 18:34 Are there things that biochar, activated carbon, or charcoal Unknown Speaker 18:40 doesn't do that, that mycelium does better. Or why? Why would someone want to use a micro filter over activated charcoal? Unknown Speaker 18:52 Yeah, that's a good question. So with micro filters, Unknown Speaker 18:59 the advantage of using micro filters is that we are using Unknown Speaker 19:04 the mycelia in its it's metabolically active, so it's used whilst it's in its vegetative state. So that means that we're not only relying on one process for remediation. So with biochar, for example, we only have the only process for removing contaminants is by absorption, Unknown Speaker 19:26 but with the micro filters, because Mycena are living, you not only have biosorption as a way of removing contaminants, but You also have bioaccumulation, Unknown Speaker 19:40 and you also have the enzymes that the Mycena secrete. So with micro filters, there's Unknown Speaker 19:49 more having or remediation or breaking down contaminants, as opposed to just using the activated carbon. Unknown Speaker 20:01 And an interesting thing also about Unknown Speaker 20:06 the micro filters, I mean, working with living my cedar, is that even with Unknown Speaker 20:12 microbiological contaminants, with E coli, they are able to Unknown Speaker 20:18 not only trap E coli, but those secretions, they actually detoxify and kill the microbes. So there, I feel there are more benefits or advantages with working with the metabolically active, and there isn't much required to keep it Unknown Speaker 20:39 alive, as long as there's the food source, the substrate is is there, and you can pretty much add that, you know, intermittently at the substrate, intermittently, depending on how long you're doing your your remediation. So as long as the food source is there, the mycelium will be able to survive and keep on working. Unknown Speaker 21:04 So Unknown Speaker 21:06 I'm curious about how someone would go about commercially applying this, especially because it is a living organism, Unknown Speaker 21:15 and there are aquatic fungi that can live underneath the ocean, which is amazing. But I feel like most Unknown Speaker 21:24 saprophytic fungi that traditionally live on land don't do well submerged underwater, and like us, they breathe oxygen and let out CO two. I'm still baffled how aquatic fungi work, because they still do the same process. So I have no idea how they do it, but Unknown Speaker 21:44 I'm curious. You know, if you imagine applying this on a commercial scale, how, Unknown Speaker 21:52 how would you go around making sure that that Mycelium is bioactive and is still alive and producing enzymes. And Unknown Speaker 22:05 would you have that half submerged underwater? What? What are your thought process of, Unknown Speaker 22:11 kind of making this commercially feasible? Unknown Speaker 22:15 Yeah, the submersion that that is, it is a challenge. I agree. So I think Unknown Speaker 22:25 microfiltration, or micro filters would have to be applied where Unknown Speaker 22:32 it's a case of the waters Unknown Speaker 22:37 flowing Unknown Speaker 22:40 through the column or through the filter, not necessarily having the filter submerged. So there it will. It would be limited in terms of where it can be applied commercially, but nonetheless, they are in places, or, you know, circumstances where it can be beneficial. For example, in in in where I stay, we have challenges with water, just availability of water. So rainwater harvesting becomes Unknown Speaker 23:14 a solution to try and, you know, cover that, that gap. So filtering that rain water that harvested rain water that the micro filter can can work perfectly in a system like that, because then that water just flows through the column, and then we collect it, and then we're able to use the water Unknown Speaker 23:34 for whatever purposes. Another thing is also in farms. I live in an area that, you know, there are farms, a lot of farms Unknown Speaker 23:46 around. This is something that I'm actually interested in, that out that I hope to pursue. Unknown Speaker 23:53 You know, after, when farmers use their equipment or where they prepare their pesticides and where they wash their equipment after, you know, applying pesticides, that water usually connects in a rinse a pit, Unknown Speaker 24:11 but it's not treated, the pesticides are still there. So that micro filters can be designed in such a way that all that water first passes through that filtration process before it collects in a rinse aid pit. So I'll say the applications are limited to such scenarios and not necessarily where they can be submerged. Unknown Speaker 24:36 Yeah, I know you said you you picked plerotis or striatus because it was easy to get that that species and pretty easy to grow. Were there other species that you were considering that you've seen in literature work really well that you wanted to use, but just didn't have access to or want to use in the future? Unknown Speaker 24:58 Um, do. Unknown Speaker 25:01 The I saw in literature, the tremes fascicula, Unknown Speaker 25:08 and Unknown Speaker 25:10 there's another pluritist to be region, yeah, I saw those a lot in literature. Unknown Speaker 25:17 Yeah, if I had access to them, I would have loved to try them out, because I know that Unknown Speaker 25:24 from some of the papers that I read that they were, they were really good in moving some metals, for example, Unknown Speaker 25:31 yeah, but there are plans. There is Unknown Speaker 25:38 a lady in here in South Africa who is also a mycologist, she's particularly interested in the local strains that haven't been explored in South Africa. So that's something that funds permitting we may, you know, if we identify whatever strains, and I mean species, maybe try those and see how microfiltration phase. But yeah, there are plans and hopes for that Unknown Speaker 26:13 cool. And what about for the snail Unknown Speaker 26:17 is that a local species of snail, Unknown Speaker 26:20 were there other kind of aquatic creatures that you wanted to use or have used in the past that worked really well? Why? Why use that dirty snail? Unknown Speaker 26:30 Yeah, so that snail, we actually breed that species. We breed two species Unknown Speaker 26:38 at the National University of Science and Technology, where I'm a research fellow, so we break the heli so much jewelry and the limnia Nutter lenses. So because, yeah, those are what we have. Those are the snails we normally use when we are doing our bio indicator work. So it was just, it was a no brainer to use them for for my study, because they were just barely available. Unknown Speaker 27:08 Yeah, Unknown Speaker 27:11 and I do have a friend in South Africa who has some Turkey Tail that true media's first of color. Unknown Speaker 27:18 So after this, I'll put you two in contact, and hopefully he can get you some culture or something, Unknown Speaker 27:26 and he might have the other plerotis as well. Unknown Speaker 27:30 So I'll put you two in contact after this, and hopefully you can learn some more studies and tests, and that'd be great. Yeah, yeah. Unknown Speaker 27:42 So what, what future research do you want to see done in micro remediation as a whole, micro filtration, Unknown Speaker 27:50 both just in the industry, and then yourself, like, what do you what do you want to Unknown Speaker 27:57 do? I'd like to see it grow. I feel like, Unknown Speaker 28:02 especially with microfiltration, it's such a small niche, not a lot of people are working on that. I was telling my supervisor the other day that I feel when I go to conferences, I feel like I don't have someone to talk to, you know, someone who's working on this. So I'd love to see this, this area, grow, and Unknown Speaker 28:31 I'm interested in, because I've been working on a small scale, and a lot of studies that I've seen, they work on a small scale. I'm just, I'm interested in upscaling. And, you know, Unknown Speaker 28:44 implementing it in the real world, under real world settings. But of course, before ideally, before really taking it out there, it would be good to like have that pilot sort of set up Unknown Speaker 29:00 and Unknown Speaker 29:03 mimicking, you know, for example, the last bit of my PhD work, I filtered wastewater samples for I collected wastewater samples from Unknown Speaker 29:15 a treatment plant. So the next the ideal step within to have a pilot scale sort of setup where we are mimicking, you know, the operational conditions of the real treatment plant, and then seeing how we seeing how and where we install these micro filters before, you know, then implementing it at a real treatment plant. So it's things like that, you know, just upscaling. And then I'm also interested in the valorization aspect of the used micro filters to see how we can get useful products from that Unknown Speaker 29:59 I have not seen. Unknown Speaker 30:00 In this done anywhere, or perhaps I haven't researched much about it, but I'm really interested, because I believe in the power of mycelia, they are able to rejuvenate themselves. So I would love to see that after using those micro filters, if they can, Unknown Speaker 30:23 under the right conditions, under optimal conditions for recovery, can they, you know, restore themselves Unknown Speaker 30:31 to their former, flourish before, you know, receiving all those contaminants, and then maybe make products out of that, though, make, you know, mycelia based products out of those used Unknown Speaker 30:44 micro filters. So I know that there will be a lot of work required, you know, to before getting there, but that's something I'm interested in looking at or seeing happen. Unknown Speaker 30:58 Yeah, I, I just interviewed this group. I can't remember what their name Unknown Speaker 31:04 was, I'll find it and I'll send them to you, but Unknown Speaker 31:10 they they were working on using micro mediation to break down Unknown Speaker 31:17 like construction waste, and then using those spent mycelial blocks to grow new construction. Unknown Speaker 31:25 And so, you know, those that mycelial block, yeah, most of the time has a lot of toxins or heavy metals or things that you don't really want to put back in the environment. But if you can kind of enclose it and use it as like a new building material. Unknown Speaker 31:43 It can turn into something useful. You know, past have a second life, so to speak. So I'll find their name and I'll send them to you as well. I know they had a pilot project. I can't remember in what country. I think they're based in Detroit, but then they had another pilot project somewhere. I'll find it and I'll send it to you. My brain hasn't turned on yet today. Unknown Speaker 32:11 I understand, Oh, that'd be great, yeah, because it's just a thought that, you know, I've just been thinking about it. I have not really read, and read up about it, but it'll be good to be in touch with them and see what they've done and, you know, see whether Unknown Speaker 32:29 what I'm thinking is feasible or not. Unknown Speaker 32:33 Yeah, totally. So where, where can people if they're curious about microfiltration, micromediation as a whole. Unknown Speaker 32:43 What different resources or recommendations you have in terms of books, videos, Ted Talks, anything, articles, where should people go to learn Unknown Speaker 32:57 more? Yeah, they can definitely. Unknown Speaker 33:03 They can find my papers. For example, we have about Unknown Speaker 33:09 two papers out, three papers out, and we're working on a systematic review. So it leads to the review. We are sort of collating all the primary research that's been done, so hopefully next year it'll be out. But those are there on research gates, you will just search me, sunlight and gandala. Um, Unknown Speaker 33:31 yeah, but generally, YouTube, I know, is a good place. I mean, that's where I watched the TED talk about Unknown Speaker 33:41 mushroom saving the world. So that's always my go to and when I want to understand, you know these concepts? Unknown Speaker 33:51 Yeah, I just read a lot of papers, so I would say, Unknown Speaker 33:57 just Unknown Speaker 33:59 search your microfiltration or fungal filtration, on your Google scholars and on your whatever scientific databases, and yeah, there's definitely a lot of information there. Unknown Speaker 34:15 Amazing. Well, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it, and Unknown Speaker 34:20 I will definitely put you in contact with with a couple of folks after this, but Unknown Speaker 34:25 yeah, thanks for coming on. I really hope all your future research goes swimmingly. And Unknown Speaker 34:31 these are really, really important solutions that we need to figure out. If we have some sort of chance that survival as a species, we're making a lot of toxic waste in our environment, and if we can figure out some more sensible solutions, I think the quicker the better. And so thanks for working on it. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for your interest in my work. It was really lovely being on your platform. You. Unknown Speaker 35:01 Yeah, thank you, and thank you everyone for tuning in and streaming in for another episode of the mushroom revival podcast. If you like the show and you want to contribute, we don't have a direct way for you to donate financially. We don't have a Patreon or anything like that, but we do have a mother brand mushroom revival. We have a whole line of certified organic functional mushroom products from tinctures, powders, gummies, capsules, and Unknown Speaker 35:30 if you want some, we have a coupon code just for listeners of the podcast, and that is pod treat for a surprise discount code. If you Unknown Speaker 35:40 don't want to spend any money, we have a giveaway going on where we send a box of mushroom goodies to one winner a month, and that giveaway link is in the bio. Unknown Speaker 35:51 Also, leaving a review goes a long way just telling any friends and family. Unknown Speaker 35:56 We also have a bunch of free resources on the site as well. We have a ton hundreds of blog posts and free ebooks that you can download, Unknown Speaker 36:05 as well as my newest book, The Little Book of mushrooms. And yeah, if you're if you learn something cool in this episode or another episode, please tell your friends and family, keep the mycelial network growing and as always, much love and may the spores Be With You. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Backed by world renowned mycologists100% Mushroom Fruiting Bodies3rd Party Lab Tested Backed by world renowned mycologists100% Mushroom Fruiting Bodies3rd Party Lab Tested Backed by world renowned mycologists100% Mushroom Fruiting Bodies3rd Party Lab Tested Backed by world renowned mycologists100% Mushroom Fruiting Bodies3rd Party Lab Tested